Curse

Hella Good · Sep 08, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Attributes:

Fast Casting 7 + 1
Domination 10 + 1 + 3
Illusion 7 + 1
Inspiration 11 + 1

Skills:

1- E-burn (-8nrg)
2- Spirit Shackles (-5nrg per attack)
3- Mind Wrack
4- E-drain (E) (-9 nrg)
5- Feedback (-9 nrg)
6- Ether Feast (-3 nrg)
7- Distortion
8- Res

Equipment:

+5nrg, 20 recharge Dom cane
+30 health, 20 recharge Insp off hand
Savant Armor recommended

Use:

Shut down Sins/Rangers with Shack/Wrack combo. You can use Shacks on Wars, too- it prevents them for using skills that bypass Distortion (they all cost nrg). Drain casters with Burn/Drain/Feedback/Feast. Keep yourself allive with Feast/Distortion.

Variations:

Insead of:
*Distortion
*Res Sig (in AB)
*Ether Feast (in TA, HA, GvG)

Use:
*Inspired Hex
*Drain Enchantment
*Blackout
*Diversion
*Sig of Weariness
*Power Leak

Cheers!

Mr Crapsicle · Sep 08, 2006, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Not sure why you would leave power leak out

at 14 dom foe loses 24 energy

A better bar for denial/interupts and damage - (off the top of my head anyway)

power leak -interupts -24
power drain - interupts +24 (em)
energy drain - -9 +18(em)
shackles - -5 attack/melee only
mind wrack - dmg
ether feast- -3 +hp
distortion
rez

look at power leech, sig of weariness, echoing power leak is a nice option, guilt /shame, power spike adds more dmg

Hella Good · Sep 08, 2006, 07:39 PM // 19:39

I'm not a big fan of Power skills. I find spell based interrupts limitting, esp. when you face a Boon Prot or a BL Monk- they use spells with casting time lower than 1s (excluding Guardian and MoRecall). I'd rather punish them for using enchantments with Feedback. Spell based inters are really only useful versus Eles, and to some extent Mesmers, Necros, and Ritualists.

Power Leak is really the only viable Power skill in an e-denial build and I'll put that in the alternatives list. Power Spike is only passively causing nrg loss due to need for a heal and even that is questionable (say "Hi" to Sig of Devotion). Power Drain/Return do nothing for e-denial purposes. Plus having P Drain and E-drain is overkill. I've always said that having too much nrg is just as bad as having no nrg at all- it means you're wasting your skills.

Guilt/Shame are limitting, I need more flexibility in the skills I'm using. I feel I'm not using my skill pool well if I choose Guilt/Shame over something universal and way more devastating like Diversion or Blackout.

Mr Crapsicle · Sep 08, 2006, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Yeah I'm not much of a fan of shame or guilt either and like your suggestions as well. But they both represent denial and EM so I listed them for that reason.

I'm going to have respectfully disagree with you of your assesment of spell based interrupts. I'm guessing that you are not much into interrupting. The listed skills should go a long way towards shutting down or denying most any caster while adding a little punishment in as well. Listed skill bar should provide you timely interrupts while getting into anyones energy pool fairly significantly while maintaining a enough energy to effectively spam shackles and mind wrack as they are removed. Add wastrels for additional damage if needed. Are BL and BP monks a challenge ? Yeah, but timing and anticipation are everything. Feedback is nice, agreed, and would certainly be part of a bar intended for their demise. That said, you can "bye" to signet of devotion for a while through a few means.

I hardly see how interrupting a caster and denying them of 24 energy fails to work itself into a bar aimed at energy denial. As far as power drain goes, it's one of my favorite mesmer skills. Show me something that will give me that kind of energy for a cost of 5 and interrupt. The only condition is there be a spellcaster in range (and you can interrupt them). I'll take the extra energy, and use it to keep dumping shackles and mind wrack onto foes. (Power spike was listed as an alternative but works well with wastrels).

I have always said that there is no such thing as too much energy, just bad skill selections. I don't know of anyone who puts a bar together and says to themselves, "hmmm, this looks like I might have too much energy. I really can't justify that, I need to find another skill with a really long recharge time so I don't have to worry about it."

Avarre · Sep 09, 2006, 05:18 AM // 05:18

The thing is, Surge drains more over time as well as doing damage, which is it's own pressure. A slightly faster recharge also gives more force to Mind Wrack, the combined damage of surge/burn and wrack can force a monk to devote more of remaining energy to healing himself.

Power leak is functional, if you can use it effectively (on monk energy drains / mantra of recalls), or for shutting other casters down. As most edenial isn't meant to be monk specific (if you were, a better addition would be an inscripp'ed humility to stop the majority of management), Leak would be helpful to slow other casters. I'd probably drop feast for it (-3 isn't really much of denial, and is only needed in AB generally)

Hella Good · Sep 09, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

The thing is, Surge drains more over time as well as doing damage, which is it's own pressure. A slightly faster recharge also gives more force to Mind Wrack, the combined damage of surge/burn and wrack can force a monk to devote more of remaining energy to healing himself.

Yea, I understand that pretty well but with Surge ED, your nrg management is Drain Ench and the likes. And inbetween Surge/Burn/SoWeariness the nrg destroyed is -8-8-8=24. Between Burn/Feedback/E-drain the nrg destroyed is -8-9-9=26. Of course, this comparison is other things equal, and, as you pointed out the damage component of Surge means it actually drains more nrg than it says it does. However, Burn/Feedback/E-drain pack your chant remover and nrg management in the ED skills, freeing up a slot for something else. I'm not saying this build is any better than Surge, all I am saying is that it's an alternative.

@Power Leak. I did say it's a viable skill for the build, didn't I? I edited the original post to include it as an alternative, as soon as it was suggested. Thanks for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Crapsicle

I'm guessing that you are not much into interrupting.

I've always said that the only 2 universal strategies that Me can use (that is it works on most) is e-denial and interrupts. I have been very fond on both (because I dislike specialized builds, unless it's a GvG/HA build, in which case you are there for a specific purpose). I have suggested universal interrupt builds in the past. I simply stated that the spell based ones are- in my opinion- limiting. Power Leak is great. Spike is nice, too, esp. when they lowered the recharge. Rest I am not interested in from a PvP perspective, altho I have considered P Return for higher spike damage from Surge/Burn/Wrack in the past. (you frequently end up 0-ing your target and then the only damage you rly do is with Wrack)

cerb · Sep 15, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

pook if you took e-drain why not take shatter enchant instead of drain?

Themis · Sep 15, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

It's a nice build. It is a valid (and nice

) Domination-base alternative to the eDrain/illusion combos.

imo, keep in mind that spirit shackles is not compatible with Ether Feast on the same target.

Hella Good · Sep 15, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerb

pook if you took e-drain why not take shatter enchant instead of drain?

I'm not using Drain Chant, man, I'm using Feedback. And Feedback steals nrg, Shatter Chant does so more passively (through dealing damage) and even then Sig of Devotion is always there to help. Plus Shatter is more nrg intensive. Again, I'm not using Drain Chant that would be overkill with E-drain, I'm using Feedback.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Themis

imo, keep in mind that spirit shackles is not compatible with Ether Feast on the same target.

How very true. It takes a little practice but I think I'd rather have a shut down Sin or Ranger and have to switch targets for my heals than the same banging on me with all kinds of nastiness. (God, I hate Rangers)

Themis · Sep 15, 2006, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hella Good

(God, I hate Rangers)

Yeah, interrupt R are a real burden (a bit like Mesmers...

) Unfortunately Shackles are too slow to cast and easily interruptible. Interrupt Rangers are only affected by Ineptitude (fast cast), except if you take a Resolve Mantra of some kind...